How did Pablo Lemoine, Chile’s head coach, react when they were drawn with Australia and New Zealand for the 2027 Rugby World Cup? The answer is perceptive and somewhat surprising.

“When countries like Chile play in a World Cup you need a general vision,” Lemoine says. “Thinking only of sport it’s fantastic – it’s awesome. But thinking of the real impact Chile needs: development programmes, political impact, social impact … for our fans, it’s much more difficult to find tickets when you play the All Blacks or Australia.”

Speaking on Zoom from Chile’s Parque Mahuida training base in Santiago, the 50-year-old sits in front of a whiteboard crammed with densely packed handwritten text, neatly illustrating his attention to detail. He explains they are situated 1,000m above sea level, so no local internet provider is willing to install a fibre connection. “Now we’re trying Elon Musk internet,” Lemoine says.

Mercifully the connection holds. The former Uruguay prop, who played for Bristol and Stade Français at the dawn of the professional era, has steered Chile to a second straight Rugby World Cup after their 2023 debut in France. In 2027 the enlarged format will mean pools of four rather than five and Los Cóndores will naturally target victory against debutants Hong Kong.

“We have a chance to win our first [tournament] game,” says Lemoine. “Hong Kong have the same chance. It will be huge. We will try to qualify for the next stage, but it will be difficult to find bonus points against Australia and New Zealand. Our final is Hong Kong.”

Lemoine praises the new format that gives Tier 2 nations more hope: four third-placed teams will qualify for the last 16. The Hong Kong encounter is likely to be hard-fought: when they met in Talca last year it finished 22-17 to the hosts. “To have a chance to qualify by winning one game … half a chance is already magic, you know?” he says. “It’s a huge difference to the old format. I participated in two World Cups as a player and two as a coach. Your tournament was [effectively] one game.

“Now you could win one game and qualify. That’s a huge difference in the minds of Tier 2 countries: something different, something positive.”

Mustering a bonus point against Pool A’s heavyweights may prove an impossibility but Lemoine says the revised format will “definitely” change his approach against the Wallabies and All Blacks. He is realistic, however, on the prospect of a positive result against them.

“My ambition is not to beat the All Blacks,” Lemoine says. “In high performance, when you give a message to the players, they have to believe you. Everybody knows the reality against New Zealand or Australia.”

The New Zealander Mark Cross, Lemoine’s predecessor, describes the changes he has made since 2018. “Pablo brought a professional outlook, a high-performance outlook,” Cross says. “He’s demanding and knows what he wants. He’s changed the rugby landscape in Chile for ever.”

Lemoine has blazed a trail in more ways than one. He was the first Uruguayan to play professionally in Europe, signed by Bob Dwyer at Bristol in 1998. Simplicity was key.

“I didn’t speak English. There were many difficulties,” Lemoine says. “But the only thing I needed was a chance. Bob gave me two or three ideas to understand the lineouts. He said: ‘Man, you run straight with the ball and tackle straight. The rest, don’t worry.’ I started like this as a professional. After that it was my attitude.

“Bristol was a great start for me. Bob was a really good coach. It was a difficult thing coaching a guy like me. I was young, confused about my attitude, aggressive – not easy. But it was a great experience.”

What values did Lemoine learn during his career that he now tries to instil in players? “Honesty,” he says. “I’m a really honest coach, I was an honest player. I know my strengths and my weaknesses. I always had a low profile because I am a simple guy: I don’t like to talk about me. My teams have three clear values: humility, respect and ambition. I was a professional, but in all my Uruguay career, I never earned one dollar.”

When Chile qualified for Australia 2027 by beating Samoa in a playoff, Lemoine made pointed remarks about funding, or lack thereof. Does he feel supported by World Rugby? “No,” he says. “Chilean rugby received the same money for the high-performance system for the last three years. The money’s not enough. But worse than that the demand is bigger because we are preparing for a World Cup.

“I understand there are financial problems for World Rugby but I don’t think it’s right to go against a country that is working hard, in a professional way, as they demand. I’m not happy with that but we will keep fighting. We accept the reality.”

Lemoine wonders how nations such as Chile are expected to improve by normally only playing Tier 2 opposition, but also rightly identifies problems in the game’s traditional heartlands.

“We need to discuss how rugby can grow,” he says. “It’s clearly in trouble even in countries like Wales – famous rugby countries. It doesn’t work. The biggest countries in the world don’t play rugby. In China, India and Pakistan there are billions of potential fans. That’s why I like [former Bristol teammate] Agustín Pichot’s vision.”

Back in 2003 Lemoine scored against England in Brisbane, rumbling straight through Danny Grewcock during a 111-13 defeat. Is that a favourite playing memory? “The game wasn’t very good, man,” he says. “They scored 100 points. In 2015 I met Danny in a pub, and we finished our discussion with a good pint of beer.”

Lemoine’s increasingly impressive career exemplifies how the game has changed, and is changing. But some rugby traditions will never die.

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